00:01.26
Julie Craig
Welcome to this. episode of the Good Grief Believer podcast. I am your host, Julie Craig. And I am really thrilled to be.
00:13.87
Julie Craig
I'm talking today with Colleen Clifford. she just wrote a book. that is available. called Life Beyond the Binge, A Commercial Fisherwoman's Journey Home.
00:27.25
Julie Craig
And Colleen is... a really interesting lady she's had quite Quite an experience. She is a fisher woman. and former binge drinker who lost her husband to alcohol-related suicide.
00:42.31
Julie Craig
She's going to talk to us a little bit about that. And. Since that time, she has really built a new life grounded in freedom, healing, and purpose. I'm really excited to to discuss what she has learned.
00:58.05
Julie Craig
about survival and these practical tools. for people who are finding themselves grieving in destructive ways.
01:10.44
Julie Craig
We want to talk about. how much. better a grief process can be when it doesn't involve Things like alcohol. or other.
01:22.18
Julie Craig
substitutes for the really difficult work that happens.
01:27.24
Colleen Clifford
Hmm.
01:27.22
Julie Craig
When you're grieving. So Colleen, thank you so much. for sharing your experiences. I know these are really tender, tender memories. and difficult things to talk about.
01:39.58
Julie Craig
So thank you.
01:39.95
Colleen Clifford
um thanks for having me Julie I'm so excited to be here with you I think this is going to be an amazing conversation hopefully that will resonate with your listeners.
01:49.97
Colleen Clifford
I know we're gonna have fun talking.
01:52.31
Julie Craig
That's right. That's right
01:53.83
Colleen Clifford
We've already spoken before and it's ah it's like, I feel like we could talk forever. so
01:58.01
Julie Craig
I know. I know. we just We just clicked so well and talk like we've been friends for decades.
02:01.95
Colleen Clifford
Mm-hmm.
02:04.66
Colleen Clifford
Exactly.
02:06.14
Julie Craig
Well, will you start by just sharing um your own life sketch, a little bit about where you're from, your background, your life?
02:15.50
Colleen Clifford
yeah thank you for giving me that opportunity i am from the pacific northwest I'm up in the state of Washington and I had a very lovely, I have a. amazing family i'm so blessed to have a beautiful family and so my childhood there's a we're a larger family so you know i just had my childhood which was you know has his trials and tribulations but also amazing moments
02:41.44
Colleen Clifford
And then here comes teenage years and then, you know, maybe the thought of going to college. And so I started a college. path and ended up dropping out due to my drinking which i wasn't i didn't put two and two together at the time because i just everyone actually this was in the 80s so I.
03:01.40
Colleen Clifford
talked to a number of people who talk about their college years and it was heavy partying. I know it's still kind of partying. I don't know.
03:07.72
Julie Craig
Right.
03:07.95
Colleen Clifford
what level now.
03:08.35
Julie Craig
But especially in the 80s, that's when cocaine came on the scene.
03:11.28
Colleen Clifford
Oh, it was
03:11.56
Julie Craig
and
03:12.47
Colleen Clifford
crazy and i'm not a type a so with the hangover i did not make it to class Wasn't doing my homework so I dropped out. Long story short. And then my girlfriend was commercial fishing.
03:24.01
Colleen Clifford
So she, we got together. I saw this cute little truck she was driving that was new. And I said, Kath, how did you afford that truck? And she told me she fished. So she helps me get a job on a boat. And this is like 1987.
03:39.81
Colleen Clifford
And.
03:39.72
Julie Craig
How many women were on ah on the... commercial fishing boat in 1987.
03:44.40
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, you know, I should be calling it a ship. I always call it a boat, but it's a ship. And so it's actually more than we think. there's
03:51.62
Julie Craig
oh really
03:52.51
Colleen Clifford
yeah at the time because there's a factory on board it's a factory processor
03:56.86
Julie Craig
wow
03:57.54
Colleen Clifford
And these ships, actually, this industry really began around that time. and so ah the women Women are very good with detail.
04:08.14
Colleen Clifford
And so as far as... um you know, checking for fish, checking for parasites in fish, packing fish. Women are very good at that. So actually there were a number of women on board.
04:20.16
Colleen Clifford
I wasn't the only one.
04:21.82
Julie Craig
Fun!
04:22.69
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, probably like 90%. 10 % women at the time. Now it's more, it's more like almost 50-50.
04:27.67
Julie Craig
Okay.
04:30.27
Julie Craig
Wow.
04:30.35
Colleen Clifford
the the ship I'm on now. But anyway, so yeah, I... fell into that lifestyle because it is a lifestyle because we work long contracts out at sea and then we have long periods of vacation time with nothing to do and money in the bank and so you kind of develop a lifestyle.
04:49.88
Colleen Clifford
And I didn't. So what had happened is. And I was drinking at the time. So still not putting, just thought my life was great. Having all this fun partying when I was home and then going back to work and working hard on the boat.
05:01.12
Julie Craig
Okay.
05:03.48
Colleen Clifford
and But something had happened to me when I was 19 that created a lot of shame. And yeah, it was an experience that I internalized as I was unlovable, which I didn't know this at the time. I just figured this out. in writing my book like five years ago and i'm 63 years old so i I created this story and I call it the story beneath the behavior.
05:29.31
Colleen Clifford
Because this incident happened, I was so shamed. I internalized it as I'll never get married. I'll never have children. I will not be lovable. Nobody's going to love me. and I will never talk about it.
05:42.04
Julie Craig
oh
05:42.12
Colleen Clifford
And it's just the fascinating part is once I started. Looking at why I was binge drinking In the first place i i pinpoint pinpointed it back to this story that I created that I buried in my in my subconscious and my heart. And I realized that throughout my adult life, I was making choices to validate my belief about myself.
06:08.76
Julie Craig
Even though they were negative choices, because you had a negative belief.
06:11.58
Colleen Clifford
Exactly. Yes. And I did wasn't always making negative choices. I mean, ah many of my choices were positive.
06:18.05
Julie Craig
Okay.
06:20.08
Colleen Clifford
But when things were going good, I would i know that subconsciously I kind of hijacked myself to say, oh, no, you're not lovable.
06:20.67
Julie Craig
right
06:28.65
Colleen Clifford
you're going to make this choice subconsciously to to prove that you're not lovable. And this is what you deserve.
06:34.19
Julie Craig
oh
06:36.09
Colleen Clifford
and so It's really fascinating that I i and And now I give that 19-year-old a big hug. filled with love because that was how I handled it. And I didn't know. any other way.
06:51.67
Colleen Clifford
And so it's just been a journey. I, you know, over the years I did go to counseling. I'd say my twenties were my most tumultuous. I think I really had a death wish because I really.
07:03.57
Colleen Clifford
didn't think I was lovable and I never thought I'd get married. So imagine as a 19 year old, all my friends will actually. you know they went to college they A lot of them got married, right?
07:15.26
Julie Craig
Right, right.
07:15.92
Colleen Clifford
Typical next step and started having children right away.
07:19.21
Julie Craig
Right.
07:19.99
Colleen Clifford
well i i that wasn't going to be in my wheel my ballpark or my my ex my like life so
07:20.11
Julie Craig
Right.
07:27.37
Colleen Clifford
You know, being on a boat at that time in the middle of the Bering Sea near Russia fishing was a perfect escape for me, which I didn't realize. because back then there was no wi-fi i was completely
07:39.25
Julie Craig
Right.
07:40.04
Colleen Clifford
Cut off, right? Yeah, we were lucky if we got a letter every month.
07:41.01
Julie Craig
Yeah. Yeah, you're not watching their lives play out in real time.
07:45.77
Colleen Clifford
Exactly. I don't have to see it. I don't have to feel it. I i don't have to feel like I don't belong And so then I'd get off the boat and I kind of became like the ah look at me. My friends started to live vicariously through me.
08:01.71
Julie Craig
Like you had this glamorous life.
08:01.83
Colleen Clifford
because I don't know yes and I put on this oh I don't need anybody I'm so independent I can travel to Jamaica whenever I want I can do whatever I want and don't you wish you had my freedom Well, all the while I really wanted their lives too, right?
08:18.26
Colleen Clifford
So isn't that interesting?
08:19.02
Julie Craig
It's so...
08:19.94
Colleen Clifford
I figured all of a sudden...
08:20.45
Julie Craig
It's so ironic. yeah Yeah, yeah.
08:22.58
Colleen Clifford
All right. Yes.
08:23.16
Julie Craig
I feel like I just. can relate to what you're saying.
08:26.53
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, and so my fishing lifestyle suited me beautifully for for many years. And where where I was going with that is I think I was testing death and unbeknownst to me. I was living very recklessly.
08:38.64
Colleen Clifford
making choices that I should be dead a number of times. And I'm not. And. ah But as I entered my 30s, I started growing up, air quotes, a little bit. and And my sister noticed my behavior and started questioning me. And my shell started to crack open, but I never did talk about it.
08:58.05
Colleen Clifford
the incident.
08:59.16
Julie Craig
Right. the That started the story behind the story behind the shame.
08:59.79
Colleen Clifford
for years. Yeah. until just six months ago.
09:04.88
Julie Craig
Wow.
09:05.53
Colleen Clifford
I'm 63. So it's...
09:06.82
Julie Craig
Wow.
09:07.74
Colleen Clifford
been a huge um You know, one thing I want to just offer your audience quickly, too, is is the biggest lesson I learned in all of this, it wasn't really my binge drinking. That was my coping behavior.
09:19.36
Colleen Clifford
for my story. And the interesting thing is the story wasn't true. I created this story. And I believed it. And I never gave anyone an opportunity.
09:28.57
Julie Craig
Yes.
09:30.69
Colleen Clifford
to prove that I was lovable. because I always had these barriers around me.
09:33.45
Julie Craig
Yes. Yes.
09:36.59
Colleen Clifford
yeah that's that's my whole like oh my gosh I lived my whole adult life like that wow So I'm still kind of craving that.
09:43.31
Julie Craig
I... absolutely Absolutely.
09:46.30
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
09:46.100
Julie Craig
Yes, yes, of course you would. because You look back and some sadness for. maybe experiences or Or, um. Hope or love or faith.
09:58.21
Julie Craig
or confidence that maybe you missed out on but But it's such a remarkable. Redemption. Right? it's such a redemption and to me this So for me, my connection to god ties in so well to what you're saying.
10:17.77
Julie Craig
Because. the darkness that you had believed that was true, the lie you had believed was true, cannot possibly come from God.
10:26.22
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
10:26.50
Julie Craig
If God is the source of truth and the source of light. then It's. So freeing.
10:33.48
Colleen Clifford
Mm.
10:34.37
Julie Craig
to have to have that truth finally. manifest and it's redemptive
10:42.24
Colleen Clifford
It is.
10:42.19
Julie Craig
You know, it just. it's beautiful
10:44.50
Colleen Clifford
It is. And I appreciate your observation on that. I too believe in God. And part of my... You know, I really struggled with, am I going to share this in my story that I just.
10:58.41
Colleen Clifford
published with She Rises Studios that that, you know, I'm not necessarily concerned about. strangers who I will never meet reading my story. It's my father who's still alive it's the people i know who are going to read this and the judgment that they might have they may not share it with me but they're going to have their
11:18.17
Julie Craig
right
11:19.48
Colleen Clifford
their feelings and i decided that you know At the end of the day. I'm just afraid of the judgment and that's fear.
11:29.49
Julie Craig
Right.
11:30.43
Colleen Clifford
And I'm going to let that go because I know God loves me.
11:30.88
Julie Craig
Right. Right.
11:33.91
Colleen Clifford
And I know that when I die, I feel like I've.
11:34.01
Julie Craig
right
11:37.92
Colleen Clifford
Like. this isn't a sin i didn't create a sin from what happened to me i was a victim
11:45.99
Julie Craig
Yes.
11:46.82
Colleen Clifford
And.
11:47.50
Julie Craig
Yes.
11:48.30
Colleen Clifford
and this And so... It's not that I did anything wrong, but the interesting part with shame is we make it feel that we did something wrong.
11:57.20
Julie Craig
yes again that's the lie
11:59.31
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
12:00.01
Julie Craig
That's the yes, and that does not come from God.
12:00.47
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
12:03.29
Colleen Clifford
It does not. And so I feel so blessed that I've.
12:04.74
Julie Craig
Yeah.
12:07.95
Colleen Clifford
in in my life in my life as a living person I was able to realize that the story I created was a lie. And I've always been loved.
12:19.87
Julie Craig
Yes.
12:19.94
Colleen Clifford
By God and by the people around me.
12:21.96
Julie Craig
Yes.
12:22.23
Colleen Clifford
because They hear that I say I was unlovable. They're like, what are you talking about? So it's just learning that, wow, it's just me learning how to love me.
12:31.03
Julie Craig
Right.
12:31.67
Colleen Clifford
I was getting in my own way. And now I'm free from that. And honestly, Julia, I think I'm still kind of. I've been very tired and I'm just kind of like taking an exhale with all of this because it's pretty intense.
12:46.30
Colleen Clifford
i mean
12:46.67
Julie Craig
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Recalling all of. this and trying to encapsulate it in one Record. which is what you've done, right? It's ah it's a testament. of your life Right. It's the Colleen. Testament.
13:01.53
Colleen Clifford
that
13:02.00
Julie Craig
of of all that you've learned. but um you know But this you know this podcast is Good Grief Believer.
13:09.62
Colleen Clifford
Mhm.
13:09.79
Julie Craig
And for me, it's believer because I. I do believe. in the miracle of Christ's life. and his And his. um Gift.
13:21.77
Julie Craig
his atonement, his resurrection. the The thing that Christ does is he... He takes all of those lies, all of the darkness.
13:33.18
Julie Craig
And. He... He makes it. he makes it He takes it on him. and takes it away from us. But he also tells us not to judge each other, right? It's such an important teaching.
13:46.89
Julie Craig
Because who who else has walked in those 19-year-old shoes? And. but he knows you perfectly. He perfectly knows what happened to 19-year-old Colleen and how this all...
14:01.43
Julie Craig
ended up hurting you so bad and to be able to. Give that away. That's the believer part to me.
14:08.42
Colleen Clifford
Hmm.
14:08.98
Julie Craig
you know and it's just so healing and then of course you know when you're worried about the judgment of others well he took care of that too because
14:11.16
Colleen Clifford
listen on
14:18.11
Julie Craig
Because he gave a commandment to all of the rest of us. to not judge. you know, we just But we are here today. to um to share you know our personal experiences like you've been doing.
14:33.28
Julie Craig
And how... How you've been able to go from this? i i just keep going back to what you said the story behind the shame i love that as a phrase
14:44.53
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
14:44.85
Julie Craig
you know I'm going to be thinking about that. I'm going to think about that when I watch people's behavior or their or the things they say and think, how could somebody think that way? How could somebody do that? They're probably living out.
14:58.78
Julie Craig
some kind of story
15:00.48
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
15:00.76
Julie Craig
Right. that You know. And. but let's ah Let's pivot. to your husband did you meet him on the ship or How did you how'd you guys meet?
15:12.75
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. So my husband, excuse me, because my job, we don't necessarily need to live near the ship. We just have to show up. when we were scheduled and so i was living in arizona at the time this was around 1999 i moved to arizona
15:22.93
Julie Craig
here
15:28.22
Colleen Clifford
I had the dream of of having a horse and horse property. And so I was able to fulfill that when I was probably about 38 years old.
15:36.60
Julie Craig
Wow. So you have way gone past your...
15:37.62
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
15:40.20
Julie Craig
Friends who were... Married in their early twenties and had their.
15:43.06
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. Well, I didn't marry him until later, honestly.
15:44.24
Julie Craig
The three or four kids. Yeah.
15:47.18
Colleen Clifford
um But I moved to Arizona in 99. And he had he was my neighbor down the street. And i I didn't meet him for a while. But he had a horse tour company.
15:57.06
Colleen Clifford
And so he would take people on private rides in Sedona.
16:01.51
Julie Craig
oh Oh, that's so gorgeous there.
16:02.08
Colleen Clifford
that were magical. Yeah, we lived in the magical time in the Verde Valley.
16:08.51
Julie Craig
me
16:08.59
Colleen Clifford
It's just, I feel so honored to have lived before it was like truly discovered that.
16:14.05
Julie Craig
Yeah.
16:14.69
Colleen Clifford
So I met him through a horse. My cousin lived near me. That's how I ended up there. And we were riding our horses and there was a a horse accident. And he was nearby. He lived nearby and he came over to help.
16:28.57
Colleen Clifford
And that's when I met him. Yeah.
16:32.03
Julie Craig
Was he handsome, charming?
16:33.83
Colleen Clifford
Oh yeah, he rode up on the horse that caused the accident. I mean, it was one of those things where... my horse was involved and he comes riding like out of Gallup down the road. And I remember seeing him on the horse with his hat and his blue eyes were like.
16:47.51
Julie Craig
but
16:48.33
Colleen Clifford
Good day everyone. All I saw was his blue eyes and I'm like, who is this guy?
16:48.92
Julie Craig
ah oh
16:52.24
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
16:52.48
Julie Craig
I love it.
16:52.39
Colleen Clifford
in Yeah, I was kind of like fairy tale kind of
16:56.57
Julie Craig
Like out of a movie.
16:57.92
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. And he really, you know, as ah was an amazing man, would help anyone. just Jack of all trades. um In fact, his clients loved him so much. We became dear friends with almost all of them.
17:15.31
Colleen Clifford
To this day, I'm dear friends with a couple that went riding with us and rode with him so often that at the end of the day, we stopped charging them because...
17:15.48
Julie Craig
oh
17:24.04
Colleen Clifford
yeah
17:24.27
Julie Craig
Ha ha. were friends instead of clients.
17:26.35
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. One of his clients gave us a horse, a beautiful.
17:27.56
Julie Craig
ah
17:29.87
Julie Craig
Whoa!
17:30.62
Colleen Clifford
That's in quarter horse papered.
17:30.13
Julie Craig
whoe oh
17:34.04
Colleen Clifford
for a wedding gift because she wanted her horse to be in the herd enjoying these beautiful trail rides in Sedona with Scott and his you know so yeah he was very very loved and and that's what i love too
17:35.71
Julie Craig
wow
17:44.57
Julie Craig
oh
17:50.33
Colleen Clifford
to acknowledge when I do talk about him dying by alcohol related suicide. because He wasn't always depressed.
17:59.39
Julie Craig
here
18:00.31
Colleen Clifford
And he fell into depression and. um We all know the end of that story. So. Um... You know, i it's easy to just talk about the depression and the suicide, but I...
18:15.48
Colleen Clifford
But I appreciate you bringing up how we met because. And that's the part I hang on to in our relationship.
18:22.70
Julie Craig
Yes. Because he's so much more than his darkest hours.
18:27.29
Colleen Clifford
Mm-hmm
18:29.10
Julie Craig
Right?
18:30.08
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
18:30.73
Julie Craig
So his name was Scott.
18:32.61
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
18:33.14
Julie Craig
He was a cowboy.
18:35.71
Colleen Clifford
He was he was a cowboy and he could fix anything build anything
18:36.91
Julie Craig
Aww.
18:41.65
Julie Craig
He sounds and how and how long did you get to have with him?
18:45.23
Colleen Clifford
We had six years. together.
18:46.79
Julie Craig
Wow.
18:47.96
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, so...
18:48.78
Julie Craig
Wow.
18:49.16
Colleen Clifford
um And what had happened is his parents lived near us, and they were and a charming couple. I loved them so much. And his mother, and they loved me too. I know that.
19:02.17
Colleen Clifford
His mother passed 86 so she was you know very ripe old age and had a long beautiful life she was an artist her husband and her husband his dad was also an artist And he died four months after in a car accident, unexpectedly.
19:18.80
Julie Craig
Oh wow, that's a lot.
19:19.70
Colleen Clifford
so that Okay. He lost his parents back to back and he stopped his touring business because He just needed to take a break and...
19:29.01
Julie Craig
Yeah.
19:29.75
Colleen Clifford
And he was he and his sister had to deal with... you know selling their house and all that so it just um
19:34.47
Julie Craig
Yes.
19:37.42
Colleen Clifford
While he was busy it is a lot it is a lot and then we actually moved to Utah
19:37.57
Julie Craig
It's a lot.
19:42.90
Colleen Clifford
after that.
19:44.88
Julie Craig
yeah
19:45.27
Colleen Clifford
Midway, Utah. and
19:46.84
Julie Craig
Oh, wow. i I have a kid who lived there.
19:48.20
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. I love that sound. I loved it.
19:52.48
Julie Craig
yeah
19:53.26
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, our neighbors were amazing. but And he started, ah you know, I guess depression. I know he was taking antidepressants. And then I think he just stopped. I'm not sure.
20:06.77
Colleen Clifford
And at the time, I wasn't drinking. coincident like this kind of ironic but i had quit drinking for a couple years because I noticed my drinking wasn't
20:09.08
Julie Craig
o
20:14.17
Julie Craig
Okay.
20:18.03
Colleen Clifford
becoming of me and it's not how I wanted to show up in the world.
20:21.82
Julie Craig
yeah
20:22.30
Colleen Clifford
So I quit drinking, but he was still drinking. And i think he I think because I wasn't drinking and I asked him to take all the alcohol out of the house, I think he was hiding he was drinking like in the garage and stuff like that.
20:33.41
Julie Craig
Okay, so then he starts so then he starts with a story.
20:34.06
Colleen Clifford
I didn't know. mm-hmm
20:38.10
Julie Craig
with behind His shame.
20:38.96
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
20:41.78
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. I guess.
20:43.19
Julie Craig
So... So how so how do you do you think that he was... Was he just coping with the death of his parents? Was there more? that had been on his heart or in his mind that was compromising his ability to see his own value.
21:01.24
Julie Craig
Or do you think it was? just the depression had just engulfed him.
21:06.85
Colleen Clifford
I think there was a lot going on. ah We... We he had lost all his teeth He was wearing dead shirts. He was having a um He had. ah some health issues he was dealing with that were affecting his manliness.
21:27.40
Colleen Clifford
Uh... And we were having problems financially. We were having... problems. I was commercial fishing and We had a number of mortgages. That was in like 2000.
21:41.32
Colleen Clifford
Eight. 2009 right after the bubble
21:44.15
Julie Craig
oh that was awful yes that was an awful time
21:45.00
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, yeah. So we were a couple that got caught up in, in we had three mortgages. And and quite honestly, that third mortgage in Utah, I pushed and pushed and pushed to get that.
21:50.61
Julie Craig
Ugh.
21:56.88
Colleen Clifford
s through and I you know I wish it never happened in a weird way.
22:02.59
Julie Craig
you
22:02.80
Colleen Clifford
But. ah The mortgage was in my name and we were we were disagreeing about how to. handle his inheritance. And you know it wasn't my money, but i you know I had different ideas of what we should be doing if you really want me to quit fishing and blah, blah, blah.
22:18.19
Julie Craig
mm-hmm Right. Right, right.
22:22.84
Colleen Clifford
so we were going
22:23.85
Julie Craig
it would affect you.
22:25.07
Colleen Clifford
Mm-hmm.
22:25.10
Julie Craig
you were yeah you were his wife yeah
22:26.95
Colleen Clifford
yeah we were going to counseling and we were went to a financial advisor and At the end of the day, the day he died, I'd asked for a divorce.
22:36.96
Julie Craig
oh
22:38.49
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
22:39.38
Julie Craig
of So tell me how. How did you grieve through that time? It must have been. So difficult.
22:50.70
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, it was. And I think you know, nature, God, whatever, however we want to say, I think it. It comes in snippets, which I think if it all hit at once, you wouldn't be able to move literally.
23:06.85
Colleen Clifford
And so I think I was able to co compartmentalize my grief. Whether that's healthy or not, but I had to get through at the time he died. I was on the ship We were fishing out in Russia.
23:18.64
Julie Craig
oh my goodness So you couldn't even get home.
23:23.29
Colleen Clifford
For a week I was... which turned out to be a blessing.
23:26.05
Julie Craig
Okay.
23:27.72
Colleen Clifford
I have to share it with you.
23:28.27
Julie Craig
Okay. Tell me about that.
23:29.20
Colleen Clifford
in
23:30.08
Julie Craig
Why was that a blessing?
23:30.25
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, because Well, because he has grown children and they were able to. Um... Organize his his um service, the end of life.
23:42.23
Julie Craig
Wow. Oh.
23:42.77
Colleen Clifford
in Utah.
23:43.52
Julie Craig
yeah
23:44.25
Colleen Clifford
Because they were living in Utah as well. And so I just took a step back and said, just let me know what I need to do. care of that it helped me have some space to instead of just walking in the front door and being hit with everything because it was as soon as I walked in I got hit emotionally because that's where he died
24:04.88
Julie Craig
o
24:06.02
Colleen Clifford
It gave me an opportunity away from that from that environment to start organizing. Where were the horses going to go? Where was I going to go? I wasn't going to stay in that house.
24:17.63
Colleen Clifford
get ah a storage unit we had so many things you know put the house up for sale there was just a ton of things to do so it kept me very busy in the beginning
24:25.09
Julie Craig
All right.
24:28.63
Colleen Clifford
And.
24:28.78
Julie Craig
Yeah.
24:29.53
Colleen Clifford
So that was a blessing. And I was very angry with him. in the beginning
24:34.43
Julie Craig
mm-hmm
24:35.61
Colleen Clifford
Because I felt like. I hate to say it but I felt like he copped out.
24:39.87
Julie Craig
mm-hmm
24:40.29
Colleen Clifford
not understanding depression and alcohol-fueled Suicide. Now I... understand it with compassion but at the time i was mad and and a lot of people would also say the same even today they say but especially guys they'll say wow what a cop-out
24:59.11
Julie Craig
a
24:59.19
Colleen Clifford
And now I try to read to educate people that it's, you know, it's not a cop out. It's just. felt he felt so dark in a dark space.
25:07.55
Julie Craig
mm-hmm
25:08.32
Colleen Clifford
That was his only option of relieving his pain.
25:11.59
Julie Craig
Right.
25:12.48
Colleen Clifford
And I do love to bring up the 988 helpline. And this is probably a good place to do that.
25:16.39
Julie Craig
Yeah.
25:18.11
Colleen Clifford
if anyone listening or if you know anyone who has suicide ideation.
25:18.42
Julie Craig
Yes.
25:23.43
Colleen Clifford
Please share that there is a 988 helpline in the United States.
25:27.26
Julie Craig
9 8 8
25:28.99
Colleen Clifford
988 you can text or call it there's also a 988 and then you I believe you're prompted to dial one for veterans
25:29.28
Julie Craig
Right?
25:36.72
Julie Craig
Oh.
25:36.94
Colleen Clifford
because there's a real problem for veterans.
25:39.09
Julie Craig
Yes.
25:39.51
Colleen Clifford
Christmas.
25:40.79
Julie Craig
Yes.
25:40.86
Colleen Clifford
and suicide. And so if you dial if you're a vet and you dial that, you'll you'll get a vet on the other end.
25:47.31
Julie Craig
Was your husband a veteran?
25:48.74
Colleen Clifford
No, he wasn't
25:49.92
Julie Craig
Okay. but But it's a good point. um Somebody who knows their experiences.
25:56.73
Colleen Clifford
Exactly.
25:56.89
Julie Craig
like can Because who can you share some of those things with for so many people who... Haven't had that. those experiences.
26:04.12
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. Right.
26:05.68
Julie Craig
could you Could you please explain? When you say alcohol related suicide, could you explain what that means?
26:12.65
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, I love this question. It's so within binge drinking. statistics Approximately 59 ,000 people die a year due to binge drinking.
26:26.07
Colleen Clifford
Now. In that category of deaths is suicides. accidents, violence. And, and. and overdosing.
26:37.37
Colleen Clifford
So. Meaning that because he was. Drunk when he died that it's believed that that helped him It was a binge incident because he was drunk and And so I should probably define what is binge drinking.
26:50.05
Julie Craig
huh
26:53.96
Colleen Clifford
And that is four or more drinks for a woman. or five or more in one occasion.
27:00.25
Julie Craig
hey
27:01.29
Colleen Clifford
So it could be within a two hour, like if you're at a frat party and you're pounding them back, that's definitely binge drinking or a sorority function.
27:06.54
Julie Craig
Right.
27:10.18
Colleen Clifford
Or if you're watching football all day and you've drank a 12-pack. but you don't get drunk, you still binge drinking.
27:21.13
Julie Craig
It's so crazy because like. um I think people don't think of it that way. They don't think of these kind of occasions as this is actually a problem.
27:29.66
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
27:30.13
Julie Craig
This is a real problem to have four drinks at one time or to drink a 12. pack of beer this is This is a problem. This...
27:40.80
Colleen Clifford
Yes, and a bottle of wine is for, I think, four and a half.
27:41.04
Julie Craig
Yeah.
27:46.01
Colleen Clifford
Drinks? So we don't you know I'm talking about the standard measurement of what a drink is, not what we might think a drink is.
27:47.38
Julie Craig
okay
27:53.22
Julie Craig
oh
27:54.13
Colleen Clifford
So. Uh... It's an ounce of alcohol. And I don't know exactly what it is because I don't. I don't really care about numbers.
27:59.92
Julie Craig
So if... So if you've had an episode. where where you are. drinking. what what ah What happens next? what's when it's considered.
28:14.38
Julie Craig
these different categories.
28:16.56
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, so it's... So it's considered... um So like with Scott. he If he wasn't drunk, he might have survived that night.
28:26.67
Julie Craig
oh
28:27.39
Colleen Clifford
And so that's why it's considered alcohol related. suicide. Because and I believe that wholeheartedly too because the email I got from him was very angry and he's really not a verbally or vicious kind of person so he was drunk I could tell from how he was writing and what he was rambling on about and I was like oh my gosh and quite honestly after that
28:46.79
Julie Craig
Right.
28:49.38
Julie Craig
Right.
28:54.99
Colleen Clifford
experience I swore I'd never drink again because I was like on this, you know. Alcohol kills. And it does. um but it's very you know we can easily forget when we use it as a coping mechanism.
29:12.33
Julie Craig
right Right. And it's so available and it's legal and it's socially acceptable.
29:18.98
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, in fact, people might say, why aren't you drinking?
29:20.10
Julie Craig
Okay.
29:22.89
Colleen Clifford
when you're not at a party or at a thanksgiving or at a christmas how come you're not drinking are you
29:26.51
Julie Craig
Right. Right.
29:28.84
Colleen Clifford
Do you have a problem?
29:28.80
Julie Craig
Right.
29:29.37
Colleen Clifford
Are you on the bun wagon?
29:31.10
Julie Craig
Right.
29:31.35
Colleen Clifford
you know you
29:32.10
Julie Craig
Well, andev and even from a health standpoint. As far as I understand, there's not even, there there is no threshold of an of healthy. You know, it's poison.
29:41.39
Colleen Clifford
Exactly.
29:42.37
Julie Craig
It's poison.
29:42.55
Colleen Clifford
It is. It is.
29:44.01
Julie Craig
Yeah.
29:43.88
Colleen Clifford
It is. And I like to explain that as when you're. When you eat food that's poisoned, it's called food poisoning when you're throwing up and you have a headache. And we don't have a problem with that.
29:54.58
Colleen Clifford
But what's a hangover when you're throwing up and your body's, even if you don't throw up, your body has a horrible headache the next day.
29:57.67
Julie Craig
Right.
30:01.68
Colleen Clifford
It's telling you.
30:01.88
Julie Craig
Right. It's alcohol poisoning.
30:03.23
Colleen Clifford
This is not. Mm hmm.
30:06.15
Julie Craig
Okay. And yet.
30:07.37
Colleen Clifford
So. to think about
30:07.53
Julie Craig
And yet it's. Yeah. But it's... um so So what alternatives? do you think a person has?
30:18.81
Julie Craig
when they are dealing with this with this much pain. when they're dealing with whatever the pain or the story is. that makes them turn to alcohol. in the first place What are the alternatives?
30:33.08
Colleen Clifford
Well, I think there's different levels of pain. And where you're sitting with it and in it. Because the extreme level is attempting suicide. or thinking about it and so i I've never been to that level.
30:47.43
Colleen Clifford
And so I'm just speaking from kind of ah from a very lesser level. So if someone is at that level, that's where I encourage the 988 helpline or talking to someone that isfe that can professionally help you through it.
30:57.92
Julie Craig
right
31:02.32
Colleen Clifford
Because it's really a... it's really something and asking for help is hard. I didn't he didn't ask for help
31:10.75
Julie Craig
Right.
31:11.09
Colleen Clifford
Right. When I was suffering my things that i through my grief journey, I didn't ask for help. And so. I know how hard it is to ask for help and the resistance is there. But I tell you, once I quit drinking the last time I binge drank five years ago, I finally decided that.
31:30.59
Colleen Clifford
I needed to ask for help because I wasn't changing.
31:33.65
Julie Craig
Mm hmm.
31:34.29
Colleen Clifford
And so if you're someone at a very... serious level of of darkness and thinking ask for help. professionally if you're at a lesser level like I was I still recommend asking for help But if you're not quite ready to do that, you could...
31:55.89
Colleen Clifford
You could always ask yourself first, How is it working for you? Whatever behavior you're doing, especially if it's a lighter behavior like scrolling or...
32:04.47
Julie Craig
mm-hmm
32:04.90
Colleen Clifford
overeating or eating too much sugar whatever those behaviors are that we know aren't really healthy for us
32:07.53
Julie Craig
mm-hmm
32:12.50
Colleen Clifford
I just say, how's it working for you? and then It's easier to crowd things that we don't want to be doing out with healthy things. And so rather than telling yourself, I can't ever eat.
32:20.86
Julie Craig
Right. Alright.
32:24.16
Colleen Clifford
potato chips Crowd them out with maybe... a healthy or choice and a few chips on the side.
32:31.88
Julie Craig
four
32:33.66
Colleen Clifford
So that you can say, okay, I'm still getting my chips.
32:33.81
Julie Craig
Right.
32:36.18
Colleen Clifford
I'm not like saying I can never eat a potato chip again.
32:38.90
Julie Craig
Right.
32:39.96
Colleen Clifford
Um, But, uh... And then just... you know Here's a thought that's really a challenge for all of us is is living. It's uncomfortable making change and it's uncomfortable.
32:55.20
Colleen Clifford
When those feelings come up. And that's when we reach for whatever makes us feel. Good.
33:02.15
Julie Craig
four
33:03.42
Colleen Clifford
So. the the biggest challenge and the the most If you can do this challenge, you will be so proud of yourself. And it can happen in baby steps too. It's not like something that...
33:16.47
Colleen Clifford
is just sit in being uncomfortable.
33:19.77
Julie Craig
Yeah. Yeah. Practice it.
33:21.49
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
33:21.88
Julie Craig
and And sit there and realize.
33:24.01
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
33:24.09
Julie Craig
I survived.
33:24.35
Colleen Clifford
It's great. Yeah. And it doesn't last forever.
33:27.67
Julie Craig
No.
33:28.59
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
33:29.79
Julie Craig
Yeah, that's right.
33:29.98
Colleen Clifford
It doesn't last forever. And so we're always running away from that.
33:32.21
Julie Craig
We... Yes.
33:35.60
Colleen Clifford
And I don't know if it starts when you're young. I was thinking about this because when you hit your... finger when you're a little kid and you start crying and you're someone might give you a popsicle or a lollipop here this will make you feel better you know don't feel that pain don't
33:46.10
Julie Craig
Right.
33:49.94
Julie Craig
Right.
33:50.38
Colleen Clifford
Experience it. let's Let's... distract ourselves.
33:53.86
Julie Craig
Right. And that's our that's our discomfort with our child's pain.
33:59.15
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
33:59.23
Julie Craig
Right. and And yes, it's so true. It's so true. I was just talking to ah ah to a friend yesterday who's got a three-year-old. And he's losing his mind.
34:10.00
Julie Craig
all the time. Right. And she is so uncomfortable with. Him in that moment when he's flailing and screaming and unhappy. and But it's like, but he's okay, right?
34:24.36
Julie Craig
He's fine. He's safe. he has no other way to express how and how you know, distressed he is. It's okay.
34:32.86
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, and if And if you leave them alone, they'll learn how to self-comfort.
34:32.87
Julie Craig
He's okay.
34:37.08
Julie Craig
Yes. Yes and resilience is one of the most important things. that I think we are meant to learn. in this life, but you have to have difficult.
34:45.64
Colleen Clifford
Mmm.
34:47.72
Julie Craig
experiences. in order to learn resilience.
34:50.93
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
34:51.75
Julie Craig
and yeah And then. Then when you overcome or you work through or you push through, it's amazing what's on the other side of that.
34:59.79
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm Completely. and that And that was my experience with quitting drinking.
35:05.55
Julie Craig
okay
35:06.54
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, because it's not. It's not easy. I'm not gonna lie sitting in the discomfort Feels awkward because I never sit in it before I always distracted myself. So it's like oh, this is a new feeling But.
35:22.53
Colleen Clifford
You know, like maybe jogging when you're when you start working out and it's uncomfortable to jog your first mile, but you just keep doing it and it gets easier. So it's cause kind of like, and I didn't always get it right. I mean, there was times I. I gave into my discomfort of.
35:40.41
Colleen Clifford
of what of not drinking but I used it as a, like a gauge instead of a, oh my gosh, you're, you're a failure. You're never going to be able to do this. I said, okay, well.
35:51.90
Colleen Clifford
Why did I and and the interesting thing is I might have had a beer or a sip of a beer and I thought, wait a minute. This isn't. This isn't what I want to do. Because sometimes habits are automatic.
36:03.11
Colleen Clifford
And I just poured down the drain. I mean, just because you're starting, it doesn't mean you have to finish it. You don't have to say, okay, that's it. I can never do this. I give up. But you go, oh, no, I.
36:15.12
Colleen Clifford
for the month i didn't drink i got through all my uncomfortableness like 28 days and maybe one day i didn't and that's pretty good when i never get through a month.
36:23.95
Julie Craig
That is.
36:26.37
Colleen Clifford
of any of that so i think we love to dwell on what we're not doing right
36:26.45
Julie Craig
Yes. Yes.
36:31.97
Colleen Clifford
as opposed to all the times we get it right.
36:35.01
Julie Craig
I agree. There's a lot of power in. what you do most of the time because what you do most of the time over time is who you become
36:43.26
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
36:43.92
Julie Craig
Right.
36:44.79
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
36:45.53
Julie Craig
So... so after your husband passed away did you turn to alcohol again did you binge drink through that grief or What was your process?
36:54.76
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, not immediately for like two years after he died. I I didn't. And then I had this experience where I was driving because I did a lot of driving back. from Utah, Arizona to Washington because I was moving back.
37:09.84
Colleen Clifford
to where my family is in Washington. and i broke his truck I was driving his truck and it broke down. near Mount Shasta and I was there for a week.
37:20.70
Colleen Clifford
getting it fixed and that was actually I needed that rest. It was a godsend really. And but I remember sitting there and I don't know why I just started getting the feeling of What?
37:31.74
Colleen Clifford
What the heck? What what's life about? I started falling in my own depression. I didn't know it.
37:36.76
Julie Craig
Mm-hmm.
37:37.24
Colleen Clifford
It was starting right then. And I said, I'm just.
37:38.73
Julie Craig
It was delayed.
37:40.29
Colleen Clifford
going Mm hmm.
37:40.20
Julie Craig
you Yeah, you finally had a chance to.
37:43.16
Colleen Clifford
Pause.
37:44.03
Julie Craig
Right.
37:45.37
Colleen Clifford
and then i drew And then I went and bought a six pack. I remember sitting at a park. And I just said. Yeah, I don't care. I'm going to drink.
37:53.93
Julie Craig
yeah
37:54.76
Colleen Clifford
And I didn't get plastered, I don't think, or anything, but I just remembered that was the point I went, okay, I'm going to start drinking. like i'm
38:01.91
Julie Craig
right
38:02.59
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, it was interesting
38:03.99
Julie Craig
And it's, and it's, and it's, I think it's enlightening the thoughts you were having before that, the thoughts of what's the point anyway.
38:11.83
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
38:11.95
Julie Craig
right what's what's the purpose what's this purpose what's life all about what's the purpose you know you finally meet this wonderful man that you adore and this is how it turns out.
38:23.61
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
38:24.11
Julie Craig
Right?
38:25.05
Colleen Clifford
My whole world's flipped upside down. our My dogs are living with someone else.
38:29.85
Julie Craig
Yeah.
38:30.27
Colleen Clifford
Our cats are are not really our cats. Nothing is mine. We have this false sense of we have my dog, my horse, my cat.
38:34.16
Julie Craig
Yeah.
38:38.42
Colleen Clifford
and One minute it's yours and one minute... It's not, we get to like. enjoy the relationship while we have it. But it. It's never really ours.
38:50.71
Colleen Clifford
permanently. So I was having a lot of lessons and My house, the everything just... It was a lot of loss.
38:58.69
Julie Craig
A lot of loss.
39:00.38
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
39:02.19
Julie Craig
So when do you feel like? things started to turn around. because you Because you have... you go to kind of a low place again. But when...
39:14.52
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, I should, I don't know if I mentioned this was 14 years ago, so I've had a lot of time to look over this and look at my journey when I was living it I was not.
39:19.42
Julie Craig
a
39:22.64
Julie Craig
yes
39:25.57
Colleen Clifford
i didn't know you know now i can look back at it and pick the pieces that I think I remember the way I remember them.
39:30.38
Julie Craig
who
39:33.61
Colleen Clifford
i remember that um I started really getting depressed. And I didn't know what it was because I've never suffered depression. But I was having a hard time getting out of bed in the morning to go to work. But I did go to work because in my line of business, you don't call in sick.
39:51.18
Colleen Clifford
But you just have to show up.
39:51.46
Julie Craig
Yeah, you have to show up.
39:53.23
Colleen Clifford
Which is good. It forced me out of bed. And then after work I would just go straight to bed. So I was spending a lot of time sleeping. And I just you know fortunately worked because I wouldn't ask for help. My mom and dad noticed.
40:08.68
Colleen Clifford
And they suggested I get some help. And I said, no, no, no, I got this. I'm fine. And while I'm crying and. falling apart. They were very worried about me.
40:20.05
Julie Craig
Right.
40:20.24
Colleen Clifford
I'm laughing now just because it's kind of ridiculous that I wouldn't.
40:20.26
Julie Craig
bride
40:23.100
Julie Craig
that you kept telling your mom and dad who love you and you have a good relationship with that you were fine.
40:29.38
Colleen Clifford
Exactly.
40:30.37
Julie Craig
Yeah.
40:31.31
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, and I'm just like, really? I wasn't fine. and So... But I was able to work through it because of. But when you're busy, it just, you know, your mind's off it.
40:45.39
Colleen Clifford
And just little by little, I was able to work through it. And once I did, I realized I went through depression. Like it was like, du this is depression. Now I see the signs.
40:55.62
Julie Craig
see
40:55.66
Colleen Clifford
And I thought, wow, what did Scott go through?
40:58.53
Julie Craig
Yes.
40:59.92
Colleen Clifford
because
41:00.10
Julie Craig
Yes.
41:00.95
Colleen Clifford
I never had suicide ideation, but And I'm thankful for that. And I could have, I'm not saying I never could have.
41:07.45
Julie Craig
Right.
41:08.38
Colleen Clifford
And so I realized a couple of things that anyone can fall into depression with the right circumstances.
41:08.55
Julie Craig
Right.
41:14.33
Julie Craig
Yes.
41:14.90
Colleen Clifford
And so we're not. we're not We're all not immune to it. healthy good people can get depressed it doesn't mean something's wrong with you
41:23.62
Julie Craig
Yes. It's not a character flaw.
41:27.39
Colleen Clifford
It's not a character flaw and And if someone and how tragic if someone. can't see a way out that they choose to die.
41:37.82
Julie Craig
Right.
41:38.48
Colleen Clifford
By their own hand like that to me is the most tragic
41:40.03
Julie Craig
Right. Right.
41:43.36
Colleen Clifford
and And what compassion. that That as a society, we need to reframe our beliefs around suicide and people who do die by suicide. And and instead of being judgmental and labeling, have some compassion that these people are the most are hurting the most.
42:04.09
Julie Craig
Yes.
42:05.48
Colleen Clifford
and
42:05.69
Julie Craig
Yes.
42:07.40
Colleen Clifford
It's not for me to judge.
42:09.61
Julie Craig
I even appreciate that you use the phrase die by suicide. I've been. really intentional about that because I... personally But... Because I'm so intentional, i almost it almost offends me when I hear people say, committed suicide because that sounds like somebody has committed a crime.
42:26.34
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
42:30.17
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
42:31.07
Julie Craig
You know?
42:31.82
Colleen Clifford
Exactly and that's why they're trying to change the verbiage.
42:32.37
Julie Craig
And.
42:36.28
Julie Craig
Yeah.
42:37.17
Colleen Clifford
Yeah, and that's part of why I'm here. That is why I'm here. So I thank you for allowing me to speak about this. i I feel that In my promise during my grief journey to.
42:49.25
Colleen Clifford
To Scott. and to myself that I would try to turn this tragedy into some hope. by sharing.
42:55.14
Julie Craig
yeah
42:55.54
Colleen Clifford
And I didn't know what that looked like. So i thank you for giving me you know just even being able to talk about the 988 helpline and just if anyone out there is suffering from I'm a suicide survivor, even though I didn't try to die by suicide. So people need to realize that.
43:14.87
Colleen Clifford
if a loved one died by suicide, you're a suicide survivor. And there's a lot of us out there.
43:20.63
Julie Craig
Yeah.
43:21.95
Colleen Clifford
and
43:23.11
Julie Craig
Yes.
43:24.26
Colleen Clifford
The grief journey takes a while. I don't think you ever get over it. i think Hopefully you learn how to live with it in a healthy way. And maybe even find a silver lining in the tragedy because...
43:38.43
Colleen Clifford
That's what I offer is that there's, even though his death seems so violent and Unnecessary and I will never understand why His life on earth ended that way it's really not for me to know why but i feel like you know, in these moments where there seems you know it's just i feel like there has to be some glimmer of hope through all of it
44:04.97
Julie Craig
Yes. Yeah.
44:06.85
Colleen Clifford
And so that's. That's why I'm here. That's why I started. Trying to get on podcast. That's why I've written my book.
44:16.19
Julie Craig
I love that.
44:17.56
Colleen Clifford
And I'll say.
44:18.36
Julie Craig
where Where can people find your book, Life Beyond the Binge, A Commercial Fisherwoman's Journey Home?
44:24.07
Colleen Clifford
Well, right now it's available on Amazon. in paperback and Kindle and I'm i'm working on an audio. book and i know a number of people prefer not to buy on amazon so i'm working on getting it So it'll be available at Barnes and Noble, which by the way, they're opening up 60 new stores.
44:40.88
Julie Craig
Oh, nice.
44:43.72
Colleen Clifford
Did you know that?
44:45.42
Julie Craig
really people are wanting to go into the bookstore again, huh?
44:47.79
Colleen Clifford
Yes, I'm so happy.
44:49.07
Julie Craig
They miss their books.
44:50.37
Colleen Clifford
I know, they I'm so thrilled about that. But anyway, and. um And also, yes, so that's where you can find it.
44:59.68
Julie Craig
That's fantastic.
44:59.90
Colleen Clifford
And all the proceeds go to Mothers Against Dark Drivers, by the way.
45:03.58
Julie Craig
Oh that's so great.
45:05.70
Colleen Clifford
Unless I make millions, then I might change my mind.
45:06.31
Julie Craig
It's... it's really it's easy yeah that's right
45:10.77
Colleen Clifford
would ask me that What if you make a million dollars?
45:10.75
Julie Craig
There you go. Then you retire.
45:12.97
Colleen Clifford
Well, probably not going to make a million. but We'll probably cap it at some point, but let's just sell a book, okay?
45:19.04
Julie Craig
I love that I love that.
45:21.73
Colleen Clifford
but Then we'll talk about it.
45:24.54
Julie Craig
you'll have to contact like lifetime or discovery and say, Hey, would you love to. Make a documentary about us. Commercial fisher woman.
45:33.89
Colleen Clifford
ah that's a Good night. Support mothers against drunk drivers because drunk driving is alive and well.
45:35.70
Julie Craig
Yeah.
45:39.88
Colleen Clifford
It's still happening. and
45:41.12
Julie Craig
Yes.
45:41.83
Colleen Clifford
and people ask me how could you drive home drunk and like i said i was 58 years old when i did that I'm so ashamed of that. that, you know, I always apologize to anyone affected by a drunk driver, but but on the other hand, I'm very proud that I could have.
45:59.39
Colleen Clifford
i'm okay i was scared straight is what happened because I said a prayer on the way home, God, get me home safe. And I swear I will quit.
46:08.11
Julie Craig
Wow.
46:09.47
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. Now, I should have just pulled over and called my partner to come get me. But no, I'm stupid, right?
46:14.23
Julie Craig
ah
46:14.73
Colleen Clifford
I was drunk.
46:15.19
Julie Craig
Right.
46:16.10
Colleen Clifford
But I got home safe. And then the next morning I woke up and, you know, I could have just. carried it on like oh wow that was close i should be more careful
46:25.15
Julie Craig
Right.
46:26.99
Colleen Clifford
My partner was furious with me. We tiptoed around talking about it for a few days. And I was like, okay. This binge drinking's a problem. it it The thing with binge drinking, I like to share, too, if I could.
46:42.14
Colleen Clifford
quickly.
46:42.34
Julie Craig
Yes, absolutely.
46:43.06
Colleen Clifford
that I was in denial because I didn't drink every day and I didn't even drink that often, right? So my partying was really...
46:50.96
Julie Craig
So you don't think of yourself as an alcoholic, right?
46:53.02
Colleen Clifford
No, no, no, no, no. You don't think of yourself as that because you don't think about drinking all the time. And even when you drink, you might be able to have a beer or two. And that's what I did mostly. But the thing with binge drinking is that.
47:01.74
Julie Craig
right
47:05.25
Colleen Clifford
You can have those moments and I think we all Probably have those of us who drink alcohol where you drank more than you intended
47:14.05
Julie Craig
Okay.
47:15.25
Colleen Clifford
Right. this was a moment. I was at a Sunday barbecue. My best friends. barbecue for her birthday at a party. The party started at noon. and i And we, all of us, drank too much.
47:27.77
Colleen Clifford
Not just me. And we're all in our 50s, right? It was a sunny day and I'm not making an excuse. I'm just saying.
47:33.59
Julie Craig
But you are having a wonderful, just a fun time. and
47:36.61
Colleen Clifford
Mm-hmm.
47:37.34
Julie Craig
Yeah.
47:37.25
Colleen Clifford
then i made the irrational decision i thought it was okay to drive otherwise i would never have gotten in the car.
47:41.16
Julie Craig
here
47:43.60
Colleen Clifford
And and I'm and I. that night could have turned out catastrophic.
47:49.46
Julie Craig
yeah
47:49.59
Colleen Clifford
I could have. hit someone one and killed them and stayed living.
47:51.40
Julie Craig
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
47:54.62
Colleen Clifford
I mean, it could have been catastrophic in the sense of I got a DUI.
47:58.20
Julie Craig
Yeah.
47:58.29
Colleen Clifford
and a ticket and thrown in jail i mean that would have been a real bummer.
47:59.22
Julie Craig
Yes. Yes. Yes.
48:02.65
Colleen Clifford
but i got so lucky i could have i had no consequences except a hangover
48:07.55
Julie Craig
Right.
48:07.78
Colleen Clifford
And my partner was mad at me. And I was mad at you.
48:09.68
Julie Craig
Right.
48:10.57
Colleen Clifford
right I was very ashamed.
48:11.08
Julie Craig
Right. Yeah.
48:13.17
Colleen Clifford
So I'm just proud that I turned that moment into an opportunity to change. And that's what I like.
48:18.69
Julie Craig
Yeah.
48:19.57
Colleen Clifford
share with people is you don't have to wait till your life falls apart you can change Be proactive. Change before.
48:26.75
Julie Craig
Yes.
48:27.40
Colleen Clifford
it falls apart.
48:29.11
Julie Craig
Yes. And so it's so much better now. Do you miss it? do you does it
48:34.67
Colleen Clifford
No, i was I was duped into thinking I needed to drink to have fun. Yeah, we're duped into thinking that. There's no party without alcohol.
48:46.10
Julie Craig
Interesting.
48:47.12
Colleen Clifford
That you're boring if you're not like what's wrong with you if you're not drinking
48:50.48
Julie Craig
right
48:51.34
Colleen Clifford
Now for your religion right for mormons don't drink right you're smart Ha!
48:55.16
Julie Craig
Right, right I know.
48:56.61
Colleen Clifford
You guys. You figured it out, right?
48:58.15
Julie Craig
Eh, eh.
48:59.85
Colleen Clifford
And so in your in your culture, it's probably completely different. Right?
49:04.07
Julie Craig
It's true. And, you know, it's funny. um ah Because there are plenty of, you know, there are plenty of of of LDS kids that will try drinking. But. for those who don't for those who you know adhere They...
49:19.77
Julie Craig
We always were trying to convince our friends like. You guys, we're like the... We are the fun party!
49:25.93
Colleen Clifford
Totally.
49:26.02
Julie Craig
You know, you guys look ridiculous.
49:28.38
Colleen Clifford
Exactly.
49:29.24
Julie Craig
Come to our party. We're actually having a lot of fun. Yeah.
49:32.15
Colleen Clifford
Right. And connecting and you'll be able to remember it.
49:34.39
Julie Craig
Yes!
49:35.29
Colleen Clifford
You're not going to black out three quarters of the way into the night.
49:36.62
Julie Craig
That's right. That's right. no Nobody's hooking up with that person that, oh, now I'm connected to them for the next. 60 years, right?
49:43.77
Colleen Clifford
Exactly. I know. No, it's absolutely true.
49:45.61
Julie Craig
Yeah.
49:47.20
Colleen Clifford
it's like That was the biggest aha. Of quitting.
49:52.12
Julie Craig
Mm hmm.
49:52.96
Colleen Clifford
was that realization that
49:53.99
Julie Craig
was was how little it was actually.
49:56.81
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
49:56.82
Julie Craig
adding to your life.
49:58.13
Colleen Clifford
and the others the second one was how much time I have now that I don't drink Because.
50:03.73
Julie Craig
That's interesting.
50:05.19
Colleen Clifford
You're not wasting it hungover. The next day, everything's canceled, right? Unless you're just... you can live through a hangover and do what you're supposed to do, but A lot of people cancel things And and even just the whole.
50:21.21
Colleen Clifford
time you're wasted drinking i mean that's just wasted time you're not going to remember it's not authentic it's
50:23.26
Julie Craig
Yeah.
50:27.61
Julie Craig
yeah
50:27.50
Colleen Clifford
It's just stupid time.
50:30.33
Julie Craig
i love that I love that. I love that you are getting such a... positive. I love that you've... gained more time and And.
50:39.21
Colleen Clifford
Thank you. Yeah.
50:40.28
Julie Craig
That's...
50:40.45
Colleen Clifford
i Yeah, and and you know, we can always drink.
50:41.55
Julie Craig
Wonderful.
50:44.35
Colleen Clifford
It's not that we can't. We cannot ever drink. It's available. I just choose not to drink. I'm not a drinker.
50:52.29
Julie Craig
Yeah.
50:52.40
Colleen Clifford
and i don't want to be i don't that's not part of my identity any longer
50:56.45
Julie Craig
Yeah.
50:58.13
Colleen Clifford
That's true.
50:57.83
Julie Craig
That's so wonderful.
50:59.30
Colleen Clifford
Thank you.
50:59.92
Julie Craig
Yeah, because ah because of my upbringing and my background.
50:59.70
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
51:03.48
Colleen Clifford
Mm hmm.
51:03.60
Julie Craig
It was a... Yeah, it was interesting. like explaining to my kids certain practices of ours. And I'd say. You know, a lot of things that we do that we practice that we believe.
51:16.59
Julie Craig
It's not necessarily like there's this great moral. you know. question about it. But... I do some of these things I do. Because I just want to show God that I want to make a sacrifice You know, I just.
51:32.91
Colleen Clifford
Hmm.
51:33.49
Julie Craig
I just want to sacrifice and show him that. I want. I want him to be the most important. thing in my life.
51:42.54
Colleen Clifford
I love that.
51:42.51
Julie Craig
And I vote. And I've always been blessed for that. You know?
51:46.30
Colleen Clifford
I love that I've never looked at it that way. Because when we're drunk, we're not acting in our authentic selves. Is that part of it too, maybe?
51:55.12
Julie Craig
Yes. Well, and how do you and how do you how do you love God and love your neighbor if you're drunk?
51:56.05
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
52:00.24
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
52:01.04
Julie Craig
Right. But if you're. Sober? and you see a need in front of you, and your mind can process that someone one is hurting,
52:04.12
Colleen Clifford
then
52:10.01
Colleen Clifford
mm-hmm
52:11.03
Julie Craig
You know, you're there, you're available, you can show up, you show up for your kids, you show up for your boss, you show up for your partner, you know.
52:11.99
Colleen Clifford
Yeah.
52:18.45
Colleen Clifford
That's beautiful.
52:18.52
Julie Craig
your spouse Yeah.
52:20.61
Colleen Clifford
That's a beautiful observation. I love that. I'm gonna carry that one with me.
52:24.64
Julie Craig
Yeah.
52:25.70
Colleen Clifford
Thank you.
52:26.10
Julie Craig
Well... This has been such a fabulous conversation. Well, we'll have to we'll have to talk about if we want to reschedule and and talk about our shared experience with ah with our. mothers having both of our mothers have passed away recently within the last year and
52:37.65
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
52:41.91
Colleen Clifford
Yes.
52:42.45
Julie Craig
So maybe we should should continue and and have that conversation.
52:42.34
Colleen Clifford
i Thanks.
52:46.26
Colleen Clifford
I would love that because I really feel and just I love. talking with you i love connecting with you it just feels like like you said earlier like we've known each other for a while.
52:56.41
Julie Craig
I know. It's like I'm talking to my old friend, you know.
52:59.35
Colleen Clifford
I loved it. Um. Yeah, but the Alzheimer and dementia journey is is unique, but it's... um But it's similar. When people go through it, right?
53:11.25
Julie Craig
Yeah.
53:11.49
Colleen Clifford
different people but kind of similarities and it's fun it's just educational and fun to share your experience with someone who's experiencing it or has experienced it too so you can say oh we have some things in common or oh you have an observation I didn't think about or maybe I do that you didn't think about so it's just maybe helpful if someone out there is
53:25.04
Julie Craig
right
53:28.87
Julie Craig
Right.
53:33.37
Colleen Clifford
going through that journey too.
53:35.20
Julie Craig
Yes, exactly.
53:36.45
Colleen Clifford
Yeah. I'd love that. Thank you.
53:38.28
Julie Craig
Okay, well, let's do that.
53:39.72
Colleen Clifford
Coming in. Okay.
53:40.77
Julie Craig
Well, um This has been such a great conversation. I am so thankful for everything that you shared and for being so willing to share really. personal. things but you know what what you've experienced and learned and the hope that you've gained. It's just.
53:58.79
Julie Craig
It's so obvious, you know, you just, and I'm excited for anybody who has a chance to read your book, Life Beyond the Binge, a commercial Fisherwoman's Journey Home. by Colleen Clifford.
54:10.37
Colleen Clifford
so I'd love that.
54:12.48
Julie Craig
uh Now... ah I always end the podcast with the same question. What do you think it means to grieve well?
54:21.61
Colleen Clifford
I... What I've learned is just to allow. Allow your grief journey without judgment. And that can be hard. Because we love to. We love to think we know what we're supposed to be doing.
54:36.67
Colleen Clifford
But. If you could be open to just allowing and observing. That's That's what I've learned.
54:46.06
Julie Craig
i love that
54:47.31
Colleen Clifford
Hmm.
54:47.100
Julie Craig
It's like sitting in the discomfort like you talked about before.
54:52.42
Colleen Clifford
And it's not always easy
54:54.10
Julie Craig
No it's not.
54:54.88
Colleen Clifford
Like I talked about yeah, it's not but um but you know we have our are sources of strength. when we feel we need it, right? Whether it's it's turning to prayer or to our family, our therapist, ah our church, whatever.
55:06.15
Julie Craig
yes yes Yes.
55:10.92
Colleen Clifford
This community is so huge for having us.
55:13.08
Julie Craig
Yes.
55:14.45
Colleen Clifford
A life filled with...
55:14.60
Julie Craig
Oh.
55:17.39
Colleen Clifford
belonging and love.
55:19.13
Julie Craig
Absolutely. And not turning to alcohol.
55:23.15
Colleen Clifford
her
55:24.47
Julie Craig
There.
55:24.51
Colleen Clifford
Or drugs, or...
55:25.55
Julie Craig
Yes.
55:26.34
Colleen Clifford
gambling or sex or
55:28.31
Julie Craig
Yes.
55:29.12
Colleen Clifford
whatever's gonna Add shame. to the journey
55:37.04
Julie Craig
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
55:39.04
Colleen Clifford
Thank you.
